OSV STORY FOR DEC. 8

What's next for Bill Clinton's man in Rome?

In an exclusive interview, Ambassador Flynn defends his rocky tenure, and hints that he's heading home

By Greg Burke

ROME

Ray Flynn does not answer the question directly, but that is understandable. It is not an easy question: What did you say in your cable to the State Department the day the Vatican called the vice president of the United States a liar?

The question refers to the period leading up to the United Nations Conference on Population in Cairo in 1994, in which the Holy See was accusing the United States of trying to further abortion rights worldwide.

In particular, the Vatican press office named Vice President Al Gore, head of the U.S. delegation to Cairo.

"That was a very difficult period of time," said Flynn, ambassador to the Holy See. "I wanted to be loyal to my country and loyal to my core values as a Catholic. I never wanted to hurt either institution."

Flynn, the former mayor of Boston and the father of six children, takes pride in his pro-life stand and his support for society's underdogs. "There are certain fundamental values I was brought up with as a Catholic that I won't back off on," he told Our Sunday Visitor recently, dressed casually in a blue buttoned-down shirt and no tie, relaxing in the ambassador's residence on the Gianiculum Hill.

He remembers having told President Clinton that if there was ever a day he would have to compromise his position, then he would leave the post.

"I've never lost a minute of sleep in doing what I've done," the ambassador noted. "Admittedly, it's often gotten me in trouble with the U.S. government. Sometimes it's just impossible to straddle the fence."

Flynn's most recent storm came over Clinton's veto of the partial-birth abortion bill. On the very day the president vetoed the legislation, Flynn was at the Rector's Dinner at the North American College, an annual fund-raising event.

He was sitting right next to Cardinal James Hickey of Washington, and the conversation naturally turned toward the veto. Although Flynn had never given any interview about his behind-the-scenes actions, encouraging Clinton to sign the bill, after that evening it became public.

"Flynn backs Vatican in blast at Clinton," blared the headline in the Boston Herald.

"I just called it the way I saw it," Flynn recalled. "You can still be loyal to your country and your president by telling them the truth." The ambassador stressed that he appreciates discipline and loyalty, but points out that it is not bad for a major political figure to let it be known that he listens to all sides of an issue.

"I did what I felt I had to do, and what I thought was even good for the president," he said. "This could have been the biggest issue in the presidential campaign if Bob Dole decided that it should have been."

Dole, of course, decided otherwise, and the issue virtually disappeared.

Flynn also got into hot water with a letter he sent to religious leaders and other prominent people in the United States before the Pope's visit to the United Nations last year. Flynn's criticism of Congress' "war on the poor" was interpreted as partisan, and the ambassador was formally reprimanded by Secretary of State Warren Christopher.

"There's nothing in that letter that was partisan," he said, adding that he never even mentioned the words Democrat, Republican, liberal or conservative. "Sure it was political, but everything's political."

Flynn claims he was simply contrasting the United States that Pope Paul VI saw 30 years earlier with the one that Pope John Paul II would find -- an America dominated by the Republican Congress' Contract With America, welfare reform and dramatic cuts in programs to help the needy.

"What I said was completely accurate," the ambassador said. "Basically, I got reprimanded for calling it right."

Pope and Clinton

He believes Pope John Paul's speeches in the United States gave encouragement to others to stand up and speak out in defense of the disadvantaged.

"He was very clear in his message of concern for the poor, disadvantaged and voiceless," the ambassador argued. "In my opinion, this helped change the angry, mean-spirited, anti-poor environment in the U.S.A."

Flynn will not go as far as saying that it was the Pope who won the election for President Clinton.

"No one wants to hear that," he said with a laugh. But he insists that the Pontiff helped change the political environment by reminding Americans of their obligations to the poor and downtrodden.

Following Flynn's controversial letter, conservative columnist George Weigel wrote that it was time to bring him home. "He's a decent man in a job whose distinctive requirements -- discretion high among them -- are badly matched to his talents and temperament," Weigel said.

Weigel said that the Vatican post should go to an experienced Foreign Service officer, of any religious creed whatsoever: "Getting the Vatican Embassy out of the patronage game would be a signal of American seriousness that might help repair some of the recent damage."

Flynn clearly disagrees and argues that those who think the post should go to a low-key non-Catholic have a complete disregard for what the Vatican means to the U.S. government. Low-key is definitely not high on his list of good characteristics in a Vatican ambassador.

"It takes someone who's not afraid to rock the boat," the ambassador maintained. "Unfortunately, in diplomatic circles, people don't get rewarded for doing something well. They're only criticized if something fails. That leads to not doing anything."

Flynn is certainly not afraid to rock the boat. He talks of a "strong anti-Catholic sentiment in certain segments in the U.S." and issued a strong response to former Surgeon General Dr. Jocelyn Elders after news of some ill-informed and nasty remarks she made about the American hierarchy.

Following his nomination, Flynn kept running across reports that he was headed toward a "highly ceremonial position." He did not like that job description and got assurances from both Clinton and Christopher that he would not be restricted to the Rome cocktail circuit.

"The newly minted ambassador, no wallflower, immediately told one and all that he had no intention of merely hanging out in Rome," wrote Weigel, who continued in a more cynical vein. "He would be a roving global troubleshooter, the administration's point man, accompanying the Pope to various hot spots around the world making peace, dispensing aid, denouncing tyrants and thugs and, just coincidentally, demonstrating the one-to-one correspondence between Catholic social doctrine and the politics of the Clinton administration."

No wallflower indeed. In his role as ambassador to the Vatican, he has visited Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Burundi, Sudan, India and a couple dozen other countries. He has traveled to Bosnia on five different occasions.

Flynn claims he has received more criticism from conservative Catholics such as Weigel, who do not agree with his politics, than from non-Catholics who question whether he is working for the president or the Pope.

"When a Catholic like myself starts talking about immigrants and the poor, well, these aren't social issues that they [conservative Catholics] support," the ambassador said. "There's a big difference in political philosophy about how we see our mission as Catholics."

Now that Clinton has been re-elected, what's next for Flynn, who clearly loves what he has been doing?

"The decision I will make is what is in the best interest of my family, who are all back home," he said.

Burke writes for I Media in Rome

Copyright Our Sunday Visitor, 1996; from the 12-8-96 edition

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